NOTES

All comments are moderated, and will be posted as I see fit. The purpose of this is so that I can control the quality of engagement between myself and others.

Tuesday, March 19, 2013

The Good Tree, The Bad Tree PT 1.

This study will possibly change or grow in detail so If anybody wishes to interact with my comments, feel free to post your comments making sure to quote anything I say. If they are courteous and productive then I will be more than happy to make them public. My purpose is not as much to prove a point as it is to explore.


 Matthew 7:15-20 (NAB)

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So by their fruits you will know them.


The purpose of this study is to explore this pericope and make sense of it.

Is the tree to be taken as figurative for a prophet and the fruit as 
figurative for teaching?

Who is Jesus referring to here? Scripture says false prophets (figuratively bad tree). The natural assumption would be to understand Jesus to be, by implication, referring to false teaching with the view that the “bad fruit” is the false teaching and the "bad tree" is the false teacher. The logic goes something like this: You can recognize a false teacher by his false teaching. But is this the best way to understand this pericope? If it were then, it would pose problems with verses 17 and 18 in effect saying: Every good prophet teaches true teaching and cannot teach false teaching. Likewise the inverse would be true that every false prophet must teach false teaching and cannot teach true teaching. But from experience I think we can agree that good folks don't always teach true teaching, sometimes they are in error.

Perhaps we must distinguish between true doctrine versus true intention? A true prophet would not intentionally teach false doctrine? But then again this is problematic as well since the focus of Jesus words is on recognizing a good/bad tree by its fruit. If he, by good tree, only meant one who had good intentions but still may produce bad fruit, then it certainly makes no sense to tell us how to recognize a bad tree since bad fruit could all the same indicate a good tree.

One protestant take on this would be to, in a sense, view Judas as the poster boy for this pericope. But that not seem to work since scripture nowhere indicates that Judas, if he were a bad tree, was teaching false doctrine. This may seem like an argument from silence, but I think it is one that actually speaks volumes. It would seem to me that, in light of Jesus teaching on the matter, that someone, i.e., the other disciples would have pointed Judas out as a false teacher. Yet scripture says nothing about this. Didn't Judas go out with the others two by two?

Is this bad tree a reference to an "unsaved person" as some protestants understand it? I would say no. Even if I were to grant that protestantism was right concerning how it understood salvation, i.e., Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) I would have to then argue that that view is even more problematic when trying to understand the above pericope in light of it. OSAS would have to read this pericope as: Judas was never saved, therefore he could never produce good fruit but could only produce bad fruit, that is, only teach false doctrine.

In light of OSAS there would be three possible approaches to this pericope.

  1. Judas was saved hence the reason for his fruit being good instead of bad.
  2. Good/bad tree is not a figure to indicate wether a person is saved or not.
  3. Or Jesus was just plain wrong.

Some of course would counter me as being too wooden or literal in my use of Jesus words, but am I?


This is a study in progress. More to come....



Wednesday, February 27, 2013

The Irony of Sola Scriptura

The apostles did not practice sola scriptura. They did however regard their oral tradition as carrying equal weight with their written tradition.

Catholic View = written equal to oral

Protestant View = written alone.

Doesn't it strike you as ironic that it is the Catholic position that is found in scripture?

Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Are you part of the 'All over the map' denomination?

What denomination did I belong to as a protestant? I was one of those protestants who would say "I am just a christian" or "I am non-denominational". I would usually say that both Calvin and Wesley are right regarding the doctrine of predestination, but they are just talking past each other. So if you were to ask me where I stood on this doctrine, I would say, "somewhere in the middle".

Of course as time went on I began to realize that by saying "I am non-denominational" that I was actually putting myself into a denomination. Get enough of us doing the same thing and we will start to be recognized as a category.

As a catholic I have been trying to actually categorize what I was. In the least amount of words, how would I describe myself? Well seriously I would describe myself as having been, "all over the map". I borrowed from various famous non-catholics such as Calvin, Luther and Wesley and what ever else "seemed" to make sense to me.

Which leads me to distinguish between two types of protestants: - Those who are attempting to follow systematic theology and those who are not. Those who are not, could be said to be 'all over the map'.

So I would say that my denomination was 'all over the map'.

Monday, February 4, 2013

How did Jesus practice sola scriptura?

Many protestants will readily admit that sola scriptura was not practiced in the first century. But there are still some protestants who argue that Jesus practiced sola scriptura. Their argument looks something like: Jesus never appealed to any other authority except for scripture.

How could Jesus practice sola scriptura while acknowledging that the Old Testament was not all that there is to the word of God?

What is your understanding of Implied Doctrine?

Does something have to be explicitly stated before you accept it? Or do you find that it being present in scripture, implicitly to be sufficient to qualify it as "biblical"?

Tuesday, September 25, 2012

Coming soon - "Thinking Out Loud about Scripture" posts

What are "Thinking Out Loud about Scripture" posts? The general focus will be on text of scripture and the intent is to discuss, comment or explain a pericope or verse of scripture but primarily for an explorative purpose.

What was the 1st century christian's sole infallible rule of faith?


Between the time the New Testament was started and it was completed, what was the christian's sole infallible rule of faith?